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  1. thinskin

    thinskin Porn Star Banned!

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    If you have a blocked Suez canal then call the dutch.......last time Suez had this problem the dutch solved it!

    Trade will start to flow again but not so nice for live cargo.



    thinskin
     
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    1. Pyaephyo14
      It was better for world trade
       
      Pyaephyo14, Jun 17, 2021
    #1
  2. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    That's pretty interesting. I have been following this and saw them preparing for the last resort which was to unload at least some of the cargo. Did the Dutch supply the high speed tug boats?
     
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    #2
  3. thestrangerinyou

    thestrangerinyou cookiemonster

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    well lets hope the market rights its self now today has been a bloody red day for day trading.
     
    1. tenguy
      Who is “day trading” today? Can’t be anyone with market savvy.
       
      tenguy, Mar 29, 2021
      notserP1 likes this.
    2. thestrangerinyou
      no one really trading any thing today because its all red nothing really to trade
       
      thestrangerinyou, Mar 29, 2021
      notserP1 likes this.
    3. thestrangerinyou
      that being said i did make some money on RKT but i bought that friday
       
      thestrangerinyou, Mar 29, 2021
    #3
  4. HiMyNameIsBob

    HiMyNameIsBob Sex Machine

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    Hmmmm all red n tanking... 20210329_152222.jpg
     
    #4
  5. slutwolf

    slutwolf Porn Star

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    Yeah , the live stick ships are always a problem if anything goes wrong.

    At least with these two , they're only going to Jordan , basically just around the corner ,
    so only a day or so once they can move.
    Presumably they'll get early priority.

    Not like some , which may be weeks at sea.

    There have been some pretty horrendous outcomes there.
    We banned them for a while ,
    but they're allowing a few again now.

    There was one lost in a typhoon not long ago , including several kiwi in the crew.
     
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  6. slutwolf

    slutwolf Porn Star

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    Of course the Dutch have always been well up there amongst the world's top salvage experts,
    but as far as resources go ,
    it was pretty much a case of getting everything they could get onto the job quickly

    Like:
    The Dutch-flagged Alp Guard and the Italian-flagged Carlo Magno,
    called in to help tugboats already there, reached the Red Sea near the city of Suez early Sunday,
    satellite data from MarineTraffic.com showed.
    ** **

    There was always a massive problem on the job , because of the extremely restricted work area , and tow lengths.

    They couldn't get far enough away for a normal towline length.
    (even with our toy stock barge , when it got stuck one night , they put out all the line they could risk , in the harbour , about 250 meters , and then put full power on.
    They actually broke the litterally brand new towline on first attempt.
    Fortunately I have as standing well back , behind a big tree :) .
    Fuck it went with a crack , followed instantly by a huge boom , as the recoil hit the front of the barge , followed by panniced voices
    "Are You OK" )


    Because of the restricted lengths ,
    it also meant the thrust of the propwash ,
    of thousands of horsepower , was pushing against the tow , against the side of the ship.

    Also , at risk of blasting sand etc in under her in some circumstances , such as between tugs , where the washes work against eachother.

    Although other places , if they could get the angle right , it could also help blow stuff out from under her.

    All quite complicated
    and very tricky
     
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
    1. notserP1
      Ought to have gotten a helicopter to pick up ship then deposit where best.
      Grandmother said I was "a thinker."
       
      notserP1, Apr 6, 2021
    2. slutwolf
      Grandmother is misleading in you then ,
      and common sense is clearly not your forté.
       
      slutwolf, Apr 6, 2021
    #6
  7. slutwolf

    slutwolf Porn Star

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    How much pull did the tugs have , is a question I been wondering.
    What we call "bollard pull"
    a small trawler/scalloper I owned had a 4 ton pull.
    a mates bigger "propper" trawler had a 6 ton pull.


    Well Egypt's Suez tug Baraka 1 has a 160 tonne pull
    so it's no slug in the pulling stakes

    The Dutch tug Alps Guard has 285 tonne pull

    of course , as explained elsewhere , they were quite constrained by the environment ,
    meaning none could apply thier full power to its full potential.
    pulling against thier own thrust for example

    Now that the job is done , there has to be. some questions need asking about the future use of the canal , and the ship's that use it.

    While a ship this size can safely pass through ,. there is No margin for error.
    None ,
    and if it slows to much , it may loose some if it's steerage ability ,
    and , become uneconomic for the SC authority.

    It's a bit of a catch 22
    and if it gets to close to one bank , then it gets caught in a bank drag effect ,
    basically sucking it closer.
    Rather tricky , when your so wide your effectively kinda close anyway ,
    and your so long , even a tiny need to turn , to correct , puts you so much closer.
     
    #7
  8. slutwolf

    slutwolf Porn Star

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    The first issue of the questions over the Suez canal.

    #1 - it was not built to cater to super carriers.
    They didn't exist.

    #2 - conversely , super carriers were not built to use the canal.
    They were conceived and built expressly to go around it. Specifically around The Cape of Good Hope.


    Below , some snippets that illustrate the advent of super carriers
    ***
    supertanker A term originally applied to the class of tankers too large to transit international canals while carrying cargo, and currently defined by two ship classes: Very Large Crude Carriers (VLCCs) between ~200,000 and ~300,000 deadweight tons (dwt) and Ultra Large Crude Carriers (ULCCs) greater than ~300,000 dwt. Supertankers are a remarkable technological response to market conditions that promoted economies of scale without apparent bound in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s.

    ****
    the Suez Canal restricted tanker size. Energy market shifts
    and
    the 1956 closure of the Suez Canal created

    new routes, removing geographic barriers to construction of the first VLCCs and ULCCs. Fully-loaded supertankers (especially efficient diesel-powered VLCCs built in 1990s) reduced unit shipping costs dramatically.

    *****
    this from
    1974
    Supertankers now comprise an important segment of the world's tanker fleet;
    there are now more than 200 of these 1100-ft giants in service.

    *****

    A series of Suez Canal closures saw owners look to round the Cape of Good Hope.
    As a result, tanker sizes began to grow significantly.
    In 1955 the Bulkpetrol was overpass by “Sinclair Petrolore”, which had a capacity of 56,000 long tons.

    In 1959 the 114,356 dwt “Universe Apollo” became the first tanker to pass the 100,000-ton figure:
    within a decade ships five times that size were being planned.

    The biggest oil tankers were built in the 1970s after the 1973 oil crisis. Thus a new generation of tanker was born, the VLCCs (Very Large Crude Carriers) and the ULCCs (Ultra Large Crude Carriers).

    The biggest oil tanker and biggest ship ever constructed – “Seawise Giant” was built in 1979.

    *** ***

    Many of these early monsters were quite quickly repurposed to carry other bulk products , from ore to grain , and anything else that could be loaded and unloaded in bulk ,
    so we very quickly had a whole extended family of super carriers , all built to go around the canal.
    Not through it.

    So what happened ?
     
    #8
  9. slutwolf

    slutwolf Porn Star

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    Well , what did happen ?
    basically , Egypt wanted to regain a bigger piece of the pie .

    (after they decided attacking Isreal was a loosing strategy, and settled for accepting the reality ,
    and subsequently reopening the canal)

    For a while they were just happy to have their goose back laying golden eggs.

    But then they wanted a lot bigger slice of the pie , so they enlarged the canal.

    Trouble is , they didn't enlarge it enough ,
    and once they let big boys start using it ,
    inevitably ,
    more and more carriers were getting bigger and bigger again , untill now ,
    this monster that had things go pear shaped , is only one of many ,
    and realistically it is to big ,
    at least for the narrower parts.

    Now , everybody has come to expect ridiculously cheap transport , in ever increasing bulk.
    It's become the norm.

    It is so cheap , they export wet fish from England to China , just to be filited and skinned , and then re-import it to eat.
    (by the time it was landed back in England , the whole exercise had cost the grand sum of
    1d per pound .
    That's right , one penny per pound .

    as one example.

    And another,
    someone , in England , was very concerned they couldn't finish their house ,
    because the timber for thier tongue n groove flooring had been sent to China,
    to be milled into tongue n groove there ,
    and was on its way back ,
    stuck on the monster jambed/jammed across the Suez canal.

    God knows how much of that sort of merry-go-round nonsense is going on ,
    but it's probably a hell of a lot.

    So Egypt allowed Big ships into the canal , and they slowly get bigger n bigger ,
    and more n more of them .

    And why , really.
    So we can have more and more unnescassary junk and toys shipped faster and faster , cheaper n cheaper .

    What's the solution ?

    I don't know , but something needs to change , or these types of incidents are likely to become more frequent ,
    untill change is actually forced.

    (imagine how long the canal might be closed , if a fully loaded behemoth becomes stuck across the canal ,
    AND
    Breaks in half , which is literally possible ,
    tens of thousands of tons of junk in the middle of the canal .
    Oh what fun.
    AND
    spills thousands of tons of fuel into the waterways , into the Mediterranean and the Red Sea )


    Maybe limit the size , at least untill ;
    the obvious

    Make the canal bigger ,
    quite a lot bigger , not just the minimum like last time.

    Rethink priorities , and send the monsters around the Cape again.

    Any thoughts ?
    Because it does affect us all ,
    directly or indirectly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
    #9
  10. thinskin

    thinskin Porn Star Banned!

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    • Like Like x 2
    1. Lioness
      My grandfather was from Rotterdam.
       
      Lioness, Mar 30, 2021
    #10
  11. slutwolf

    slutwolf Porn Star

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    It was a disaster waiting to happen, and it could easily happen again — in the waters near Iran, in the Panama Canal, or in the Turkish Straits.

    Food for thaught.
    snippets


    Put simply: There are more ships and the ships are getting bigger.
    Unfortunately, our maritime highways haven’t always kept up with the traffic. There are only so many nautical passageways and ports in the world.
    To ease the congestion, you can either build new lanes or find new routes.


    China is ahead of the game.
    Over the past decade, the Chinese government has pursued several expensive alternatives so it would no longer be reliant on the narrow Strait of Malacca between Indonesia and Singapore.

    China has long feared, with validity, that the strait could become a chokepoint leaving it bereft of the oil it needs to thrive.

    That’s why China built Pakistan’s Gwadar port to receive oil from the Middle East and then transmit it across Asia.
    China also built oil and gas lines across Myanmar, constructed the Khorgos Gateway in landlocked Kazakhstan and, perhaps most creatively, proposed cutting through the narrowest part of Thailand to create a brand new canal.

    (and probably worst , from the west's point of view ,
    China has been allowed to completely take over
    the whole South China Sea ,
    virtually unopposed)


    Though not all these efforts will be successful, a few are already paying off.

    More than 60 countries are participating or interested in pursuing an infrastructure deal with China.
    Think of it like a portfolio.
    China is diversifying,
    while the U.S. and the rest of the world has put all its capital in just a handful of assets.

    This week one of those assets, the Suez, tanked.
    The blockage risked triggering price hikes on everything from gas to toilet paper.

    Hoping it doesn’t happen again is a bad investment strategy.
    "Hoping it dosen't happen again
    is a bad strategy"

    sounds eminently sensible to me



    Russia , Putin , is thinking along the same lines , looking to open a North Passage for example.

    Look at any map of the world ,
    and the bulk of freight has to reach places between the equator and the Arctic circle.

    Trouble is ,
    there's a hell of a lot of
    Very Big Lumps of dirt in the way.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
    #11
  12. tenguy

    tenguy Reasoned voice of XNXX

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    The Suez Canal has been operating virtually continuously for over 150 years, with traffic declining recently, but tonnage growing. Due to the increase in container and ro-ro cargo shipping.

    Super tankers cannot use the canal, because of their size.
     
    #12
  13. slutwolf

    slutwolf Porn Star

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    The next most interesting phase of this is starting to shape up.

    What happened that caused the ship to get jambed across the canal ?
    and:
    Who's fault wa it ?

    Unsurprisingly the SCA is more bing quickly to try and distance itself from any fault.

    It mayvwellngetvaeay with that angle ,
    but I'm not convinced they shouldn't at the very least share a reasonable portion of the blame.

    Here's a copy of a bit about it;
    ****
    The vessel's technical managers, Bernhard Schulte Shipmanagement,
    said on Monday that
    its initial investigations suggested it had veered off course due to strong wind. They also ruled out any mechanical or engine failure as a cause.

    However, Rabie believes
    the impact of the wind was not the main reason for the incident,
    and that "technical or human errors" may have been to blame.
    Well prey tell me on what grounds do they base this pronouncement ?
    You've got a ship arguable technically to big for that part of the canal ,
    11, 000 feet long ,
    and 187 feet high ,
    on water , like a floating city block ,
    and you don't think wind might have effected it ?
    what planet are they on
    IMG_20210331_220541.jpg

    Then

    "The Suez Canal has never been closed because of bad weather," he earlier told reporters.
    So exactly what dose that prove ?
    They've been exceedingly lucky ?


    He also denied size was a factor, saying larger ships had used the waterway.
    Oh really ? How so ?
    Absolute Bullshit.
    You've had lots of ships have problems in the canal over the years , but most were not so big that their sheer momentum inevitably carried them to embed themselves in the banks ,
    and they've not been to big to muscle out of the way quite quickly with the available horsepower.

    Size most definitely contributed to the problem ,
    and is arguably the reason it took so long to solve.


    This whole summary of theirs, in my experience , is simply not credible at this stage of the game.
    Then there's the responsibility questions ,
    but that's another part of the game.
     
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    #13
  14. slutwolf

    slutwolf Porn Star

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    The responsibility question is a complex one.

    On the face of it , the owners and the skipper hold all responsibility ,

    and it is likely they will get away with that angle,
    so long as ,
    like above ,
    they can make it look like they don't hold any.

    Throuble is , reality is often a little different.

    They own the canal , and they charge a hell of a lot of money to use it.
    Have they made it fit for purpose ?

    Then ,
    they require that this ship has
    Two canal pilots.

    That is two of their own experts in the field , with many years of traversing that particular stretch of water ,
    who
    should have an intimate knowledge and understanding of it ,
    Every detail ,
    in ALL circumstances , and
    ALL conditions.

    What were they doing ?
    Drinking cups of tea ?
    In my experience , they often do , and often not much more.

    Why did they allow things to go so wrong that they could not correct it ?

    11,000 feet of ship ,
    traveling at 400 yards per minute ,
    12 1/2 knots ,
    in a canal only 2 - 300 yards wide ,
    (is a recipe for disaster sooner or later anyway)
    there is no time to change the outcome once you've let something go wrong.

    But in this instance in particular , they hold all the cards.

    They have this monster of a ship ,
    with 20,000+ containers ,
    and 20,000 packets of customers goods ,
    held to ransom in the lake , between two parts of the canal.

    Pay up , or it stays there , is what they've demanded.
    What option do the owners , and insurers etc have ?

    Your guilty before proven , and we got you by the short n curlies.
     
    1. slutwolf
      actual relevant measurements :

      Length: 399.94 m (1,312 ft 2 in)
      so 200 feet longer than I stated above

      Beam: 58.8 m (192 ft 11 in)

      Draught: 14.5 m (47 ft 7 in) (design)
      • 16.0 m (52 ft 6 in) (maximum)
       
      slutwolf, Apr 5, 2021
    #14
  15. slutwolf

    slutwolf Porn Star

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    An opinion

    Pilot Error

    The ship got stuck attempting to navigate the canal in extremely high winds.

    Piloting ships such as this in wind conditions outside accepted operating parameters is a recipe for disaster,” said Gregory Tylawsky, a ship captain with the Maritime Expert Group based in Santa Rosa, Calif.

    Assessing the Blame

    The captain of the Ever Given appears to have made a huge error attempting to navigate the Suez Canal in high winds.

    However, the Canal Authorities should not have permitted passage in the first place.

    This line of thought assumes the winds were too strong for safe passage before the ship entered the canal
    (or reasonably known to become so).

    If so, the Canal Authorities are more responsible than the captain of the ship.

    Alternatively, if this was a sudden, unpredicted wind storm and the captain made no navigation mistakes, then this incident is just an unfortunate accident.

    About sums it up I think.
    It is said they were hit by a sandstorm and wind.
    Can you have a sandstorm without wind ?
    How much wind
    Why hasn't anybody stated what the actual wind was at the time ?
    They surely can't operate the canal safely withoit wind information ,
    particularly for those mega ships
     
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    #15
  16. Odins own

    Odins own Porn Star

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    Wrong!!! I told them to get it done ....OR ELSE :punch: :punch: :punch:
     
    #16
  17. stumbler

    stumbler Porn Star

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    After reading @slutwolf 's analysis of assigning blame it jumped out at me at least some had no problem assigning blame as soon as it happened. For some reason many tried to blame one of the very few female ship captains even though she was hundreds of miles away from the grounding.

    Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

    [​IMG]

    image caption Marwa Elselehdar is Egypt's first female ship's captain

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56615521
     
    #17
  18. tenguy

    tenguy Reasoned voice of XNXX

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    This is a classic example of tabloid news. Tons of speculation, with very little pertinent information.
     
    #18
  19. notserP1

    notserP1 Sex Lover

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    Ought ti go back using shallow draft dhows. It's Egypt afterall.
     
    #19
  20. slutwolf

    slutwolf Porn Star

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    .
    That "Eurika" moment.

    I happened to see a pic in an article of a view looking along the canal from a different position.
    Instantly the thaught came to mind;

    OMG , they never got her under control cumming out of the corner ,
    certainly not before the wind and sandstorm hit.

    At 12+ knots , they would still be making corrections to get her straight and centered , at least for most of that distance she traveled.
    IMG_20210406_225131.jpg

    IMG_20210406_225502.jpg
    That's quite a tight corner for a vessel a quarter mile long , and taking up a third or more of the navigable width of the water.
    IMG_20210406_092728.jpg
    a graphic modified to represent the actual measurements at the sight of stranding ,
    where the canal is only 3.5 times as wide as the ship ,
    which is obviously only navigable between the points it could touch ,
    approximately the red dots .

    It is quite apparent there is no room for speed wobbles.

    * * *
    It is actually quite difficult to get accurate information on the canal ,
    with quite a lot of contrary pieces.

    These two are an example from the same page on one search
    *****
    After several enlargements, it is 193.30 km long, 24 m deep and 205 metres wide. It consists of the northern access channel of 22 km, the canal itself of 162.25 km and the southern access channel of 9 km. The canal is single-lane with passing places in the Ballah Bypass and the Great Bitter Lake.

    **
    The Suez Canal (Arabic: قناة السويس‎, translit: Qanā al-Suways, French: Le Canal de Suez), west of the Sinai Peninsula,
    is a 163-km-long (101 miles) and,
    at its narrowest point,
    300-m-wide (984 ft)
    ****
    The best information I can find is that it is actually about 205m at the sight
     
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    #20